Shaun Stockman: Overcoming Fear, Dependence, and Finding True Success

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, hey everybody, and welcome to How to be a Real One Percenter. It's a podcast where we're redefining what it means to be a one percenter. No longer the obsessive pursuit of some sort of success at the cost of everything else. It's about having all the success that we want, but also living a real, genuine life. That's both externally having everything we want, and internally just really enjoying and loving our experience of life.

I couldn't be more delighted to have our guest today, Shaun Stockman. Shaun, firstly, just thank you very much for being here. You'll all know Shaun; if you're in the Christchurch area and know anything about property, then Shaun Stockman is obviously going to be a very familiar name. He has so much to do with property development and investing in Christchurch. Just one of the most well-known people in that arena here. So, Shaun, thanks for being here. Really delighted and thank you for taking the time and joining us on the podcast.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Thank you, Sridhar. Great to be here.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, Shaun, we've spoken a little bit about this. We didn't want to set too much up, but this podcast is really about... after I had my turnaround in life—and I was at a low with drug problems and homelessness and various things, as you would know my story—I had a turnaround moment. I knew that there was more to life, and I wanted to start absorbing and becoming a sponge to learn everything I could about living my best life.

A lot of what I learned at the beginning sounded really good but wasn't really effective. It didn't work for me. Then I got really discerning and just wanted to find things that really, really worked. Over the last 30 years, I've amassed what I call the "hidden keys to success," which is what I work with in the work that we do. You and I have been working together for a wee while now.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Ten-plus months.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, it's just getting on a year now, isn't it?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Yes.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: So, I thought, what better way to share? Because I would love for people to get these concepts. When I learned them, I didn't know them—I didn't know these kinds of secrets of life, if you will, that we could apply and get results. I'd love to share that with other people. I thought, what better way to do that than with the people I work with, rather than just trying to say to them, "You know, what's happened in your life?" So, again, it means a lot to me that you're here and willing to share it.

If I can throw you in the deep end, I would just say: what is something that you would share? What's an insight, or what part of the work has meant something to you that you might be able to share with people that could make a difference for them?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I think it would have to be the work on the mind. Previous to working with you, I'd have to say I didn't do a lot of work on the mind. I did some work, but not a lot. I didn't really understand a lot of how the mind worked and how the past influenced your mind and influenced your thinking.

You will recall that I initially came to you because I had an issue with alcohol. I woke up one morning and I realised this is 17 years of this going on, with interims in the middle to stop. At the time I was working with another agency, and it wasn't working. I wasn't dealing with it. I got referred to you and I came to you, and within three or four months, we'd nailed that issue.

Then you gave me the option to stop. And I said, "No, I want to carry on with the work," because the work is actually benefiting me on all levels of my life—marriage-wise, business-wise, relationships with people, how you interact with people, how you think, how you deal with stress and those types of things. I'm really grateful for the work we've done together and the impact it's had on my life.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, thank you for sharing that. You said that you had this problem and, firstly, thank you for your honesty here. You're such a successful person, and sometimes we look at successful people and we think everything's always together, right? It must be hard for you to have that put on you too, when there are stresses that come with what you do and just life in general. So firstly, thanks for your candidness and sharing that; it just makes a difference to so many people with that level of honesty.

So, the question I have for you is: you said that you were doing some things that weren't working. What would you say was the thing, or things, that made a difference for you in terms of the original thing that we started talking about—the alcohol, the drinking? What would you say did it for you in helping you to stop doing that?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: It was understanding why you picked up a drink. Understanding the full reason why you picked up a drink, going back in time and realising when it started and why it started, and dealing with that "why". If you don't deal with that why... because anyone can stop eating, anyone can stop drinking, but if you don't deal with the issue that caused it, it's going to keep reoccurring and coming back.

As I said, within probably three or four months, we actually had it nailed. I hadn't been able to nail it. I'd had gaps where, over the 17 years of drinking reasonably heavy, I realised I had a problem. I would sometimes start on a Monday saying, "I'm not having a drink till Thursday," and I'd get till Tuesday and you're back there. It's understanding why.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Without getting too personal, what did you discover? Like in the general area, what did you discover about the why? Do you remember?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Yeah, there were several things in the mix. Part of it was a coping mechanism. Part of it was also a fear-based thing, where I actually believed that I could lose everything. I had that fear. So, the alcohol would take you away from your day-to-day issues. You'd almost get home and rinse yourself. That's sort of how it rolled.

It wasn't till you deal with those fears... And we went through that process: "Is that true?" Lots of steps. "No, it's not true. Here are all the reasons why it's not true." And then we went through the next phase of the coping stuff. That's where the mind came in, where you realise that on a day-to-day basis, everyone doesn't have a million-dollar day.

It doesn't matter what your occupation is in life, whether you're working, retired or whatever, everyone doesn't have a wonderful day. But it's how you deal with those issues that pop up. It's that mind training, that mindset that deals with them, that gets you through them, that gives you the ability to cope. Otherwise, you were trying to just put fires out all day and it gets tiring. You know, you can cope with it at a level—and I'm a high-functioning person, I do 50 to 60 hours a week most weeks and love it—but it does get tiring.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, especially when you're dealing with the kind of stresses that you have in the property industry and dealing with some big things on a frequent basis.

Something we've spoken about a lot, Shaun, is that we have these stories that we don't necessarily know that we have. It might be interesting for people to hear, because anyone in the Christchurch region would have an idea of just how successful you are. To hear that there's a fear... it's just such gold for people to see. At some point, most of us feel like we shouldn't have that anymore. But to hear that there's a fear of losing everything, no matter how much you gather and how much you get... that fear that was there at the beginning doesn't necessarily go away. It can eat at us. Again, I want to say thanks for the honesty of that.

And then that fear can, even though you've come as far as you have... that initial fear, which we now know is just based on a thought—as you said, we investigated "is it true" and you found out there wasn't any truth to it at all—but it's there, isn't it? Year after year after year. We may not even know that it's there, but it's causing a lot of the stress. You often said we have things that become a problem like drinking, or for me it was drugs, or it could be eating. It's because we're trying to cover up some sort of pain. And that pain, I think what you're saying is, that pain you discovered was just really mental. It wasn't anything to do with reality, but something that you were potentially projecting onto reality. Would you say that that's...?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: That is 100% correct. That was 100% correct. We had the Global Financial Crisis in 2007. Before that, we had the Asian Crisis in the late 90s. We've had COVID and all the nonsense that went with that. That was a really stressful time. The world was upside down. I sat at home and just thought, "Man, this is all over." I think I'd have a different mindset today to that, with the training that we've had and the work that we've done. But it's those types of events that reinstate that fear when you've got it. It's that working on your mind that "I'm here, this is reality, I'm present in the moment. We've got through this before, and we'll get through it again."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. If we don't do that, it could just bring everything back. It's interesting that it goes back to that early time. It's not that something new is happening because the situation is coming up; it's a regurgitation, isn't it, of that thing in the past.

So, what's it like? Because I know that we've done some work and we did investigate it. I could see that you just really woke up to, "Well, there's just no truth to this whatsoever. It's just not a possibility, is it, really?" Can you describe what it's like? When you come out of that... did that just do it for you? After that, was that less like, "Okay, don't need to have the drink anymore because this is gone?" Or how did it work for you?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I understood what was causing it. And I found that that's transferred through to other areas in my life, of freeing up the way I think and the way I react to stuff. That's absolutely been huge.

The fear thing, when I think about it, goes back quite a way. I got married quite young; I was 18 when I got married. We moved into the house, bought a house, moved in, and used to put the milk bottles out in those days. I said to my wife, "Have you got some money for milk?" She said, "No, I've got no money for milk." I've got no money—didn't have credit cards in 1978. We idled the car to work because we only had enough fuel just to get us to Thursday, and we had no milk.

I think that was one of those things where the fear starts. Where I haven't got enough. In reality you have, but "I don't have enough." I think as we've trained and gone through some of that stuff, I've found that in areas of my life I've got more financial freedom. You can have hundreds of millions of dollars and not have financial freedom. That's something I've never understood.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: That's a really important point, isn't it?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Very important point.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Because without the mental freedom, there's no financial freedom. If we're still coming out of that... We didn't speak about it much because we were in the mix of it, but what happens in those times, like with the milk, it's such a personal thing. You said something really interesting, Shaun: that in actuality you had enough, which is really interesting when you think about it. But when the mind goes to "I don't have enough" in that scenario, it's such a powerful moment that the mind wants to record it for all time. "Never forget this because you never want to be in this position where you don't have the milk."

Because it's not about the milk; it's the mind saying, "Hey, I don't have enough to survive here, and this is not a good position. This is a terrible position." I've discovered that our minds subconsciously record that story in an attempt to never get there again. But as you're saying, you have; you know how much success you have achieved. But that story just doesn't want to go. It's a really powerful thing you're saying right now, because there can't be any freedom as long as that story is still part of the mix.

So, is there anything more you can say? Is there any more you can say about what was it about that process that helped you to snap out of that and to the point where you just went, "Hey, that's just never going to happen and I can move forward"?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I think it was just as we worked through some of those questions. You ran through them with me and said, "Is this going to happen? Is it really reality that you'll go broke?" No, it's not.

I hadn't actually... I'd always had that mindset. I guess when I was in my late teens and got married and money was short at the time, for want of a better word, it stained my DNA. The mind took it on board and registered it as a real alert. In the years that followed, in my early 20s I had a car yard that was very successful, and I started to buy property at that stage. I was 24, I had a house on the Cashmere Hill.

Thinking back then, there was always that thought that I could lose that. That I could end up that teen again with no money. That thought was always there. I really, honestly could say I haven't really had financial freedom over the years. Although I could go and buy the car that I want if I wanted to, or a holiday or do whatever, I actually haven't had that real financial freedom.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, as long as we're fearing that we're going to lose it... This is everyone. This is what we... when we get successful, whatever ways that we do. A really interesting question here is: what's driving that? Do we get born, for example, thinking "I have to be number one at something" or "I have to make sure I have enough"? A child doesn't think that way.

So, something occurs in life for the first time, like when you were saying about 18, and then that's when that story happens. From then on, we believe that we actually need that story to perform. But I think what you're saying here is, not only is that not true, but when you have that story, you don't actually get to enjoy what you're creating anyway. Because the fear is always there.

Like, do you remember the game Pac-Man? I don't know if I'm dating myself here, but the big yellow gobbler eating the dots. And you had the ghosts chasing. That's what it's like, isn't it? So, I assume to say now that you're done with that, right? That fear is just not something that's in your space now?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: No, it's not. No, it's not. You know, obviously very conscious of assets and money and what I've got, and I believe I'm very blessed to have what I've got, and I want to look after it. But like a lot of successful people, you get to that plateau of life where you're deemed successful, and success isn't money. People always talk about net worth, but they never talk about net peace of mind or net content.

I think for me, it's about celebrating what I've got and looking after what I've got, but also realising that I've got it for a reason and a purpose, and I don't want to be that person that just keeps going back to where I started from. A lot of people that end up on that plateau of so-called success, where you've got assets and financial freedom because of the money you've got, they often default back to where they started, and they end up going in a circle. "It's never enough, it's never enough. I'm never content. It's never going to be enough; I need more." Because it's that fear-based thing of "I need to pad myself up with as much as I can."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: So, nothing is ever enough in that scenario.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Never enough. And it is that peace of mind thing again where, you know, you'll just drive yourself mad.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I am going to have to steal this quote, Shaun. "Net peace of mind." I'm just going to use that one from now on, I hope you don't mind.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: No, that's fine. I'll franchise it for you.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, net peace of mind. We talk about net worth, but net peace of mind. Net health and well-being, net sense of feeling... what about net freedom? Net feeling of that freedom to enjoy the experience.

Because my personal experience is, because I've had it too, if we have that fear, we don't really enjoy it, do we? We don't just enjoy the experience; there's always that fear waiting for the next thing that's going to happen to lose it. And something I'm always saying is that if we're afraid to lose it, do we really have it in the first place? I knew for myself that when I was afraid of losing everything—which I've had as well—I didn't have it in the first place. Because I wasn't really present to it and enjoying it and I didn't have that net peace of mind.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. What's more valuable? We know that you have done so incredibly well in the property business and are one of the most successful people in the entire community. But what would you say in comparison of that to net peace of mind? I know that that's become a focus for you, certainly over the last year.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I think if you've got net peace of mind and you've got that good peace of mind, you will do well anyway. I've found in my business since we've been working together that there's a lot of stuff I've applied, work that we've done, that's actually improved my business. I'm spending a lot more time now working on my business, instead of working in my business. I've done that for years because I started here, down here, and it's hard to let go of some of those things.

But I've found that... you know, we had that discussion about "don't do drudgy things." If it's a drudgy job, don't do it. Do what you love to do. And what I love to do is create stuff and make stuff happen.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, it's about really identifying what are those pieces of it that we love to do and focus on that. So, what's that feeling like to you now? What's it like to be focused more on that?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: It's a whole different... I can honestly say, I've been in property 40 years. It's 40 years ago I bought my first investment property at 24. So, I've been in business a long time and it can be tough. You can get knocked around, you can get bruised, you can get economic cycles that come and go. But I can honestly say that at this chapter of my life with working with you, the stuff that I've learned is absolutely key. I honestly wish I had learned it 40 years ago.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: So, what's something that you would share with people from that, that could make a difference for them? Say they're a businessperson and want to have a piece of what you've got.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I've always been passionate about what I've done. I've always enjoyed what I've done. I've always been dedicated to it. But as I say, 40 years, it gets tough. You've got to take the things that you don't enjoy, you've got to take them away. You've got to allocate them to somebody else and let go of them and do the stuff that you want to do, not the stuff you don't want to do.

You've obviously got to do the productive stuff, the creative stuff—you've got to do it. And in the process, the peace of mind is... I've thought about this a lot. Whether you're retired or flat out working, not everybody has peace of mind. We've discussed it, but probably less than one percent of people have true peace of mind. And that's about how you let the mess in your mind mess you up. If you have... everyone has problems, you're always going to have problems. But letting that take away your peace of mind... if you've got the tools and the ability to deal with those issues in your mind, you have peace of mind.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: You get back there pretty quickly.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: You get back there pretty quickly. You might get a jolt. You might lose your peace of mind for a bit, but you'll process it, and your mind will process it and you'll go, "Yep, I know how I'm going to deal with that."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, I know in the past, things like that would have taken me out for weeks or months. I would have gone into a downward cycle, possibly even depression, and stepped out of it a month later. Whereas now, with the tools, you say, "Hey, I've got something going on. Let me get on top of that now." Because I don't want to lose any more precious time of having that peace of mind. Life is too short to not be enjoying it and to not be stressed.

I remember you said to me recently when we were speaking that there was something going on—we won't talk about it too much personally—but something was going on in your life and it was going on and on. You just got present to what was important, and you just got really communicative with everyone and said, "Hey, this is what needs to happen." You said something like, "Go back to the very beginning piece of it and say, here's where we went wrong." It's just that type of thing, isn't it? It's like going to it and saying, "This could go on and on and keep getting blown up, or I don't really want to spend my time on smaller priority things."

SHAUN STOCKMAN: No, yeah look that was interesting. That's another one of the tools that I've learned. I sometimes don't communicate well. I'm quite a deep thinker and I don't communicate well with people; I'll get something and I'll sit on it and work out how I'm going to reply to it, and sometimes I'm not very clear.

I was having this issue and we caught up and you said, "How's it going?" and I said, "Oh, I've got this problem and I've got that problem and people are just going in circles and I'm just getting really frustrated with it." I told you the scenario and you just, with a poker face, said to me, "You're the cause of it. You are the cause of it."

And when I rationalised it, I was the cause of it. I went back through the email thread, and I was the cause of it. So, I got present to the moment, and I sent an email back out and I communicated really well, and I said, "This is the position, this is the scenario. This is where we're at and this is what we're doing." And it stopped all the nonsense.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I remember you saying it just saved all that and it saved you time. I'm really big on that, Shaun. It's a big thing to say—and it's something I particularly work with leaders in, but anyone can apply it—"How am I the cause?"

People just go, "No, it's their fault. They're doing it. What do you mean how am I the cause of it?" But when we actually stop and say... something that I learned that I'm just so thankful for every day is that I'm the cause of the way my life is showing up for me, even if other people are involved. I think that's what I asked you: "Hey, how are you causing this?" I think was quite confronting.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: It was.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: But, like you always are, Shaun, it's just such a joy to work with you because you're just up for anything. This is where that really deep thinking really serves, because you took it in and you said, "Well, how am I causing it?" And the great thing that you're sharing is that... how long could that have gone on for and how much of your precious time could that have continued to take from you? I remember you saying to me, "It's done." Went back, found it and communicated powerfully.

Life is short in the big scheme of things and I'm really big on: are we loving every minute of it? You do something that's just so wonderful in terms of your work, and I know other aspects of your life are important to you as well. You're just such a genuinely good guy. That's one of the reasons I love working with you. Sometimes people look at really successful people and they put them in a camp, and you’re just somebody who's... there's so many different facets. I think you would agree with me that it's just important to love... are we loving every minute?

There are so many great things to do with our time in life. How much of it do we just spend in frivolous, low-priority things that suck up our time and kind of waste it, versus loving every minute of it? I think that's what I'm hearing from you: you're moving more in that direction.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Yes, and that's the work that we've done in that we talked about "drudge." Your word "drudge" at the time. We can all end up in those drudgy situations, and if you just keep doing them, they'll just multiply. Every drudgy job that you do is time spent on, time sucked away from a job that you really want to do, that you love doing. And also, that productive side of your business. Whether you're in property or you're in business, whatever you're in, there are always tweaks that you can do. You can tweak that, make that better, make that more efficient, make that better for your clients. If you're spending time sweeping up, you're not doing that other stuff. It's like money. If you waste a dollar here on something, that's a dollar you can't spend on something that you really want.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. So be thoughtful of it.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Be thoughtful of it.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And time... it's often said that time is our most precious asset of all, and I can't disagree with that. It's our time to actually experience this life and everything that comes along with it.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Yes, yes, you can give away your time so easily to undeserving, unrewarding tasks or people for that matter.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I hope that's another one that people take and write down. Because it can so easily happen, and we don't see it. But then it just takes that... it just can suck up our life. When you were saying that, what occurred to me is I had periods of my life where drudgery was pretty much all just about all I had, with maybe just a few moments of something different. But drudgery was most of it—low priority things that didn't really matter, that I felt I had to do, or this was a place I was supposed to be. That's just not the way it works; we get to choose.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: We do get to choose, that's the key.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Is there anything else you would say to people that might help them on their journey of their true one percent life, their greatest life?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I think part of the key to it is doing the work on yourself daily. Get up, prepare for the day. Get your mindset right for the day. Think how your day is going to go. It often doesn't go that way. But you've got to think about, "This is how I want the day to go."

We always know life's always been about goals and all those things. But I believe that if you're doing the things that you love and that you want to do and the productive stuff, that stuff will happen anyway. I've found that in the last 10 or so months that we've been working together, there's a lot of stuff within my world—business world and personal world—that's flourishing as a result of that mindset. And with the other aspects added into it. Like time spent on that, time spent on that.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah, I'm hearing "focus" is the way it's coming across to me.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Focus is key, absolutely focus is key. I've always been organised, quite organised and quite focused. But this is... the last 10 and a half months, the focus has become a lot more on the radar.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Excellent. Is there anything more that you want to say?

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I'd just like to extend a big thank you to you for the work that we've done and your patience with me sometimes.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And yours with me.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: I don't always get it straight away. But I do get there in the end. So yeah, big thank you.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Shaun, it's just such a pleasure to work with you. Not just because you’re the Shaun Stockman that we all know and that's so successful, but just... in my work, I get to know people pretty fast because we don't spend a lot of time on the surface. We dig pretty deep, pretty fast, and we get to know each other pretty well. It’s just such an honour to work with you because you're just such a genuinely good guy. Even just today you've said so many things that are just such gold for people and I hope they take them away. So, yeah, it's a real honour to know you and to get to work with you, and I just want to say thanks again for taking your time to be here and sharing your literal pearls of wisdom with us. It's just been awesome and thank you for coming, being on the podcast and sharing everything you have.

SHAUN STOCKMAN: Pleasure, thank you Sridhar.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well thanks for joining us. Thanks to our guest Shaun, and thank you for watching, and we'll see you next time on How to be a Real One Percenter.