Anthea Livingston - From Fear of Success to Living a Life Beyond Limits

Sridhar Krishnamurti: Hey everybody, welcome to The Mind Shift. It's a podcast where we talk about creating a life beyond limits. Today, my special guest is Anthea Livingston. Anthea, firstly, thank you for being here. It's really great to see you again; it's been a while since we've seen each other in person, and I've been really looking forward to having you on this episode.

Anthea Livingston: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: We have a lot to talk about when we talk about breaking out of limits. I think about how we met; I did a talk about how we have limiting thoughts and beliefs, which is how we first connected. I remember you came up to me after that talk with that look in your eye, like, "Okay, there's something here I want to talk about with you." I was just thinking about how long it has been, and you reminded me it's been nine years since 2016, so we've been having conversations for a while now.

This episode is all about mind shifting—what we can accomplish when we change our minds at a very deep level, what we can deal with, and what we can achieve. I guess when you heard that talk—if you can remember, that was a while ago—what piqued your interest? What brought you to say, "Hey, I want to find out more about that"?

Anthea Livingston: Well, personal growth is something that I've always done a lot of reading on. So, the chance to explore some personal growth, but have the fact that I had just moved back into the business world, was probably perfect timing to take that personal growth and put it into a business sense.

Probably my biggest thing that I was facing in my own head then was a fear of success, rather than the fear of failure. Just that thought of, "I don't think I can do this." I could see in my own head I had some limiting beliefs that I would want to conquer. When you talked about limiting beliefs and how that can affect you, I thought, "I need to find out more about that."

Sridhar Krishnamurti: Great. There are people out there—and this is why we do the podcast—who have that glint in their eye. They know they want to do something, but they're stopped. Sometimes we don't even know what's stopping us; we just know that it is. That is why I appreciate people like you coming on and sharing your stories.

So, if you think about that journey and what was going on at the time, what were the limits that were going on for you? Or what would you share with people regarding a teaching we've applied that made a difference, and what difference did it make?

Anthea Livingston: I think there was quite a lot going on. If you remember, I was working for someone else, and it was starting to fall apart. It came to a crunch in 2017 when I left there and was ready to launch my own business, but I was feeling a bit fearful about that. So I think you and I did a few sessions, but then once I made that move, we wrapped it up to monthly sessions. I made that commitment that I wanted to move forward.

One of the main things I remember—having listened to lots of different speakers where they talk about how you have to set goals, like your one-year goal, five-year goal, and ten-year goal for business—was that when I worked with you, it was in all spheres of your life, not just business. It was: What are your family goals? What are your spiritual goals? What are your mental goals? What are your physical goals?

Being able to actually set goals in every sphere of my life, not just business, was something really new to me and quite exciting. I could think, "Okay, so when are family goals? This is what I would want." Just being able to pinpoint exactly what my hopes and dreams were for the future was quite exciting for me. Business is really important, and it was important that I set goals for the business, but actually, the whole rounded part of being able to set goals in every sphere in my life was something that really excited me.

Once we started, it just flowed. All this stuff came out: I want to achieve this, I want to travel, I want to be the Chair of Home and Family Society—I was a board member at the time. Within ten years, this is what I wanted. And it has only been nine years now. I achieved it all by 2023. So, in some ways, perhaps I didn't look far enough, but it is exciting that it gives me the chance to actually recreate again now.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: Well, it's interesting because that is precisely what you're doing now. I shared with you my first emblem in the first version of the business—it was this concentric circle. I always remember talking about it quite a bit: you drop a pebble into a still lake, and it goes into concentric circles. Really, that's life. We're operating on this level, and a lot of times we want some sort of change, but that change is within that same concentric circle. We just keep going round and round that one, which is okay, but it's not the most fulfilling life that we can live, and it doesn't honour the potential that we've really got.

We just had a catch-up the other day, and hearing about what you're doing now—it's just on a whole other level. It's about experiencing it and then going, "Well, hey, I can be operating at an entirely different level—a whole different universe, really—than the one I'm in if I really claim what I'm capable of."

You're already saying something so important. I've been in this industry a long time, and I'll go to a sales event, a real estate event, or a mortgage advising event, and it's all just one way—all one focus. But we're complex beings. We have different areas that are important to us; we don't just have one.

Oftentimes when we're just focusing on that one, it's a motive—like you talked about fearing that success because you may not be able to do it right. Most people with that fear, Anthea, will just stop themselves and go, "Oh, I'm just not going to try it then, because I don't want to experience that." In reality, there's no such thing; there's just sometimes things work out and sometimes things don't work out. But if we don't go for it, that's the only way we're assured for it not to work out.

Often, we think it's going to mean something about us. "If I get that business success, I'm a good person, but if not, I'm not a good person, so I don't want to risk that." In reality, we just have things we love. I love the way you've started this. I remember a conversation we had this week where you just said, "I wanted to have more time with my family, and I decided I just needed to do it." So you did; you've taken a day off to be with them and to have a day for yourself, and everything is going fine. It's actually quite important to know yourself, isn't it?

Anthea Livingston: Family has always been a huge thing for me, and to build my business around their family needs was absolutely crucial for me. I'm reasonably driven, but also, there is more than just a business and a business person; family is always at the heart of everything that I do. So having that model where the whole part of my being could be included was good.

I remember meeting a financial advisor about six years ago, and he said to me, "I don't work Fridays because I don't want to." I'm like, "Oh, how do you do that?" He said, "I just tell my clients I don't work Fridays, and they're not to call me on the Friday." I thought about it and thought about it, and then earlier this year, I thought, "I don't work Fridays," and I just blocked it out of my diary.

It doesn't mean I don't do work on a Friday. I might sit at my desk and do a little bit of paperwork, I might go see somebody, or I might have a session with you which is related to business, but it's my day, and I call the shots on it. The moment I decided—I mean, I thought about it and thought, "Why are you thinking about it? Just do it." Friday's my day, and I can go see the grandbabies, I can go catch up with a friend for coffee, or I can do whatever I like. I could stay in bed all day and read books if I wanted to.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: How great to have that day, right? There are a lot of people that really want that—they think about it, but they don't do it. If we look carefully, it will be the same reasons that stopped you before getting into that business the way you have. We have a life that we want to live, but we don't do it. We think, "Oh, if I take Fridays off, then so-and-so might get upset," or "What's somebody going to think about me?" or "I might lose my business or my job."

What you're bringing up for me is one of the fundamental parts of the work: just creating a life that you love and that's true to yourself. I've heard people say "do what you love" for 30-odd years, and it's kind of a cliché, but it really is true. It takes a bit of effort. I'm not someone who tries to float people's boat and say everything is going to be easy and all you have to do is think about it. I haven't found that. But I found that if you really commit to something, you commit to your true self, your true pathway, and you're willing to do the work to get there, then it's extremely rewarding.

If I could take you back a bit, you said you were working for someone else at the time and you had this thing—"I want to do it"—but you were feeling held back. How did you break through? For people listening who might be in that scenario—not just in business, but maybe they want a development in their relationship or want to make a financial move but think they might not be able to do it—what would you say? What did you do?

Anthea Livingston: For me, it was just dissolving stuff from that previous working relationship. I had all these assumptions in my head about what was happening in that business and what was being done to me, whereas they were just assumptions. We talked through several times about what was happening, and I came to realise it was so good for me because I realised I had all these things in my head that weren't even true. I was just making them up.

Once I was able to actually dissolve those assumptions about what was being done to me, I realised nothing was being done to me. That person was doing what was right for them and their business. It didn't sit well with me, but it wasn't being done to me. That freed me up to stop thinking about what other people were thinking of me and actually think about: What is it I want? What do I want going forward?

So, doing that work on each sphere of my life and putting in that ten-year plan with those one-year and five-year goals in every sphere of my life—the moment they went on paper, they started to happen in real life.

Then, doing the Mastermind intensive for a year—not only learning about myself but learning about all the other people who were in Mastermind—I realised everyone has the same fears, the same worries. Everybody has these things in them that stop them from being who they are and reaching their true potential. I went, "Okay, girls, if they can do it, I can do it."

From that 2020 year—which was a really interesting year for everybody, and we did a lot of our work online; thank goodness for Zoom—everything just went like a freight train from the moment we all graduated. I couldn't stop it because what had been started was happening, and everything that was on my ten-year list was happening way faster.

Looking back on that, I can see I got so busy that I was working really long hours, and it was taking me away from family. I was getting tired, and I was still having overseas trips and doing the things that I wanted to do, but I think I do it differently again now.

Like having the Friday off, I will shut my laptop at five o'clock. Even if I get really busy, those are my working hours. I'd be more protective of my own time now. Now we have three grandchildren and two more on the way, being able to say, "Yes, I can come today and help"—that, for me, is the ultimate. Being able to be that grandmother who is the person that can be called to come and help because you want to be there... I absolutely love it. It's like the best job I've ever had, being a grandmother.

But then looking at recreating the business and building it up again, but more on my terms... even though I learned a lot about myself, I realised there is still way more to learn about myself and how I'd structure this new path of the business. I mean, I sold off the mortgage part of my business, but I've still been working, but at a much reduced rate, which has been amazing. I'm ready to ramp things up a bit now, but I'm going to do it differently—more on my terms and to suit our family, and still get the same outcome, if not a better outcome.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: Oh, you definitely get a better outcome like that. I mean, that was a whole podcast in about five minutes there. There's a lot to go back and unpack through that.

There are some pretty serious concepts in there. You said you saw these things were happening to you. It's simply the way we look at the world: "You did that to me. You're not being fair to me." We have a victim mentality; it's basically how we're brought up. "This happened to me, and that happened to me."

But you said something really important. I know to you it was just second nature now, but if I'm out there, I'm going, "Wait a minute, didn't she or he do it to you?" And you said, "Well, no, they were just behaving in the way that they thought was the best with the mind state that they had at that moment of time. What did it have to do with me?"

Those two little words, "to me," are often the most dangerous words in our language. "They did that to me." Once we get to "me," it creates a whole persona that blocks us from living our dream. As long as you're locked in that, we can't move forward.

So, you investigated that. What I believe I heard you say was you realised that this person was just doing what they were doing. It wasn't being done to you. What was that like, and what impact did that have?

Anthea Livingston: Oh, being able to actually do that work and step out of that victim mentality... she wasn't doing anything to me. She was literally protecting her business. What she saw was a threat, and it was just her behaviour based on her upbringing and the way she saw the world. It wasn't anything to do with me, and it probably could have happened with other people.

Being able to actually step away from that and meet up with her after that and just talk about things was quite good. Occasionally I'd bump into her at industry events, and it was actually easy, whereas I thought I dreaded the possibility of running into her.

I got to tell my story in New Zealand Advisor magazine or the Mortgage Mag, and I actually thanked her for giving me the opportunity for being able to go back into finance. I started in a bank when I left school; lending and buying houses was always something that was really important to me. I made all my friends open home internship accounts and ultimately help buy houses. I got the chance to go back into that to help her with her business, and then ultimately start my own business. I thanked her for that opportunity publicly.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: That's so powerful. Whenever we can move something to "thank you"... as long as we're resisting, what you resist persists. I remember when you got it, your face changed, and you went, "Oh." You moved to that "thank you," and all of a sudden you saw the whole purpose of that part of your life helping you, not being in the way. It's two different lives, isn't it?

Anthea Livingston: Well, even earlier this year, I got stuck on something that I thought had been done to me. It's interesting that you can regress into that, but a 15-minute conversation with you—bang. Nothing's been done to me. That person is behaving in that way because of who they are. It's nothing to do with me. And it was just like, "Oh, okay, that's gone there."

Obviously, it was something I still needed to learn from. So being more mindful about that... when someone says, "Oh, such and such did that to me," I'm like, "Did they say that to you, or did you just think that?" Maybe that's the way you interpreted it.

Even if I look back, my first marriage ended because of addiction, and actually, because of that addiction, I met the two best friends I could have ever had in my whole life. We ended up at a gambling support group for families 28 or 29 years ago, and these two people are just the best friends I could ever have. So part of me thinks, "Oh, thank you for having an addiction, for bringing these people into my life, and then sending my life off on a different course from there." At the time, I thought, "Why has this happened to me? Why are you doing it?"

Sridhar Krishnamurti: The alternative is to be angry with your ex, bitter, and resentful, which many people are, and they'll carry that forward. They don't realise they'll repeat the past because they haven't addressed what they projected onto that person. You can see now, your ex was just struggling with something in his own mind state that he needed something to forget his problems, and that's what addiction is. You get past that, you go, "Thank you."

You talked about the Mastermind, which is a group of really amazing people like yourself engaged in the mind shift work. It was an interesting time to go through; thank you for reminding me it was 2020. We went through that whole lockdown thing together.

I look at that group during that time and how everyone thrived. We were all locked in our homes, but the conversations we were having meant people weren't letting it get on top of them. I remember talking with you at the time. Your business went really great; it was booming during that time. So what were you doing differently?

Anthea Livingston: Because I was a mortgage advisor at the time, the banks wouldn't let us work with them—we couldn't put applications in. So I focused on pastoral care with my clients, just making sure they were okay: "Are you getting enough money to pay your mortgage? Do you need me to look at doing a hardship application for you?"

I feel like that time at home was almost like a gift. Having that extra time where I could actually take a breath and connect back with the clients, but also with Mastermind. Having that extra time to be able to put the work in... I feel like it was almost a gift for us, having that time slowed down. We never actually just stop in the world.

Just being able to ring clients—"Are you okay? If there's anything you need, just call me"—I never had the time to do that. And then bringing the Mastermind work in... just seeing everyone else's breakthroughs. The fact that we were all separated but having that connection where we could still get together was really valuable for all of us. Being able to bounce things off: "I'm feeling worried about my business because I can't see clients. What are you doing? What are your strategies?" We were all brainstorming.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: What we did during that time was put the focus on moving forward. When you said you were worried about your business, we asked, "What are you worried about? Can you absolutely know that that's going to happen that way? And then, if not, what could you actually do?" That's when you came up with contacting people and connecting with your own community.

Tell us about your business growth. So you started it—you're a dynamo, right?

Anthea Livingston: Well, I launched it on the 1st of November 2017. It virtually started with one client—a friend of my daughter's who wanted to buy a house. I'm like, "I've got a client! I'm so excited!"

It was gradually building through 2018 and 2019. Then in 2020—I presume it's the work I did in Mastermind—I started thinking, "Well, I can scale." I took on an amazing admin person, Helen, who freed me up from doing the dreaded paperwork, which I didn't like. She was just a superstar at it.

From there, my business just took off. Part of my ten-year goal was to bring on advisors, which I did. Some of the advisors in my team were just superstars and excelling even what I was doing, which I loved. It wasn't about them settling more mortgages than me; it was that I had mentored them to the point where they were actually excelling.

I had put in place a succession plan with one of them, which came to fruition way earlier, but perfect timing for me. She's still a superstar and running my baby. When she and her partner took over the business, she said, "We promise we'll look after your baby." She is still just doing an amazing job.

I don't know what happened; I just did the work. Then suddenly I couldn't stop it.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: "The work" means clarity. You got clear about who you were and what you really wanted. You got past the blockage that you had, and you stayed clear. I have seen over a long period of time that if we maintain that clarity, we understand that this world is magic. It gives you what you need to achieve what you want if you're just clear with it.

I love the way you said it: "I don't know how that happened. I just did the work." The work is clearing yourself out, getting past the limiting beliefs, getting clear about who you are in a genuine way, putting your focus on that, and just maintaining that.

You just shared with me yesterday something that represents how it works: you stay clear, and you go to a new level. Do you want to share with us where you're at now with your thinking and going forward?

Anthea Livingston: The work that we've done over the last couple of months involves going back to the beginning: What is it that I actually want? What do I want life to look like in ten years? I'm really clear about that.

I've taken common denominators out of every job that I've done, and the thing that I've loved the most is the development of people in my business or people that I worked with—helping people to reach their full potential. So for me, the next step is: How can I actually do that more? How can I help people who want to be advisors become the best advisors that they can be?

Structuring my business going forward means I'm going to be more available to help people reach their dreams. There's something really powerful about seeing someone come in—they're nervous, they don't know what they're doing—and actually just helping them put one foot in front of the other. "These are the steps. This is what you need to know. This is what I did." Seeing them become successful is such a joy.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: Instead of one superpower, Anthea, you're helping many. I remember you saying at the beginning of the conversation, "I want to move more into a managerial role." By the end of the conversation, you were like, "I'm going to be a manager, and I'm going to help other people." That's the next level: helping all these other people to flourish like you have.

Anthea Livingston: When you are an advisor in your own business and you're actually doing the work, there's only so much time to be able to actually do the work on the business. I actually really enjoy working on the business. So it's creating those pathways where I work less in the business and more on the business, to a point where I will just be working on the business and I'll be helping everybody else grow their businesses under my business. That was my goal when I started out on my own: to offer opportunities to people where they could grow their business under mine and be successful—and in many cases, more successful than me, which is fantastic.

There's something really exciting about putting a ten-year plan in place and achieving it in eight years—well, less than that. I started working with you in 2016, but I didn't put that plan in place till 2017, so really, it was only six years.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: And that's the power you've got. Before we finish, I always ask one question. There are people out there watching or listening to this podcast who are interested in creating that life beyond their limits. What's the one thing you would say to them that they could do to go forward and create a life shift for themselves?

Anthea Livingston: Apart from working with you—that would be my first one! I think if someone's stuck and they don't know what to do, then they need to get some outside help. They need to read a book, listen to a podcast, or work with someone like you, Sridhar, who can help them.

I think we get stuck, and then we start going around in circles, and sometimes it's hard to break past that. Even after all the work that you and I have done, earlier this year, as you know, I got a little stuck. I was ruminating, and it was just going round and round. I know how to do the work, but I think I got myself to a point where I had forgotten to reach out to someone—or even just say it out loud to someone. As you hear yourself saying it, you go, "Yeah."

Keep exploring. As I said to you yesterday, one of my new favourite things to do when I drive around town to see clients is listen to a podcast. Sometimes it's a business podcast, sometimes it's a frivolous Frugal Friends podcast, sometimes it's Mary Trump or what's happening in America. Sometimes I think, "I don't want to listen to that because it's too much to unpack there." Sometimes it's a podcast about music. But in each podcast, sometimes I'll find a little gem. You just need to step outside of what you were doing and do something a little bit different.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: That's a "boom" moment right there. I think about my own journey, and what made the difference from the homelessness and the drug addiction was the people that cared enough—teachers, for lack of a better word. And people who taught me something different. Those teachers were sometimes books and tapes. I love that: just keep an open mind, always go forward, step out of what you find comfortable, and keep going.

Anthea, I know there's going to be a lot in this one to unpack, and I know people have got a lot out of it. So thank you very much for coming here and sharing your story and just those nuggets of what we don't hear every day that people can apply and change their lives. I really want to thank you for being here.

Anthea Livingston: Well, thank you for being a huge part of that story. Meeting you was an amazing part of my life, and I thank you for all that you've done for me.

Sridhar Krishnamurti: It's my pleasure. It means a lot for me that you're here. Life doesn't have to be stuck, and it can be something special. Thanks again, and thank you for watching this episode of The Mind Shift. We'll be bringing more your way, and we'll see you again soon on the next episode.